FROM TOUGH CASES TO CO-FOUNDERS: THE SKYLINE RECOVERY STORY

0:04 Well, hi and welcome to the Lunch with Row mobile Vodcast. That’s my trusty Steed [music] and together we’re hitting the
0:12 road to discover the very best in behavioral health. Today I’m meeting with Patrick Develin [music] and Dustin Westover of Skyline Recovery in Bend, Oregon. These two turned their own
0:20 recovery into a lifeline for young men who need it most. It’s [music] the Lunch with Row mobile VOD, behavioral health’s new best friend. We got to go. Look.
0:30 Look at this. Okay.
0:37 [music]
0:37 All right. Well, here we are on the shores of the great I don’t even know what waterways river. There it is.
0:45 Uh I know you you can’t if you’re listening, if you’re watching, none of you can actually see it. Uh but we can
0:51 see it. And it is gorgeous. Uh that is a really beautiful river, doesn’t it? Beautiful river. Does it run a long way? Hey, where does it go?
0:59 Yeah. So, it starts up in the mountains, runs all the way runs right through town. So, we got the white water park,
1:06 goes through downtown, and then it keeps going all the way to the Columbia.
1:11 And does it was it just the kind of thing that the the citizens of Bend, Oregon, where we are, were just they just said, “We need a we need something to run through town. We’re wealthy
1:18 enough collectively. Let’s just make Yeah. We all dug it together.” Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. Yeah. We just go out with our shovels and add a hose, you know, started adding our fish.
1:27 It’s an ROA. It’s It’s a river ownership association. Are you guys just Yeah. Uh who are these guys? You may be
1:34 wondering. Uh I I I have with me Patrick Develin from uh Skyline Recovery. You are co-founder and the clinical director.
1:42 Clinical director. And then Dustin Westover. Yep.
1:45 Also a co-founder or the other co-founder or one of the co-founders.
1:49 How many co-founders are there? There was three of us that started it in 2018. 2018. Yeah.
1:53 Oh. Oh. So it’s you’ve been around a minute. Yeah. A little bit. Yeah. You’re making me feel old.
1:58 They’re here with Skyland Recovery right here in Bend, Oregon.
2:01 How far are we from? And by the way, we’re outside. We enjoy nature and all of its many woodpeckers um
2:09 and other sounds that happen. There’s construction going on.
2:11 There’s a natural jackhammer that’s indigenous to the area that you can hear in the background. Yeah, it is. Yeah. The locals with their jackhammers.
2:19 Uh, we’ve got bikers going by, the occasional plane will pass, but this is how we roll. We’re out on kind of a trek to
2:28 discover and celebrate and highlight the heroes of behavioral health. And um, so we’re excited to be with you guys today.
2:36 And you mentioned that you’d been uh in business now for eight years. And by the way, in business, this is a for-profit organization, correct? That’s correct.
2:43 Okay. Okay. Um, whose idea was it? How did you come up with it?
2:48 Well, it’s uh Do you want the long or the short version? The medium version.
2:53 Just go medium. Sure. Why not? Long is always scary to me.
2:56 Well, um first I need to tell you about my mom. No, I’m just kidding. No, that’s not We’re not going back [laughter] that far. Yeah. Yeah. Um No, really. I think
3:04 for us, the three of us who started it um are each in long-term recovery ourselves. Okay.
3:09 And part of our stories is that we were what would be called troubled teens or young adults. and um we’re in and out of
3:17 different treatment centers and programs and institutions and maybe jail in some cases. Um I never made it to jail, but
3:25 [laughter]
3:25 yeah, two two of the three of us made it to jail. Yeah. And um and and you know and and we were we were um what we would call in the fields of time like tough
3:34 cases even you know like that we were we were guys that um that maybe some you know the traditional just going to your like standard 30-day
3:42 treatment center um didn’t really work for us. And so each of us were able to get sober. Um I got clean and sober actually going through a program in Utah
3:51 that was based out of St. George. So that was my final stop about where I got clean and sober. Um I had been through a number of treatment centers before that
3:58 and um and Dustin had his own journey in and out of different different places and but we finally were able to get clean and sober in our in our 20s and so I started working in the field in 2008.
4:08 I got sober in 2007. So I came in with a year of sobriety started working in this field. Um and um through through that
4:15 journey of working in this field and eventually for me going finishing my undergrad, going to graduate school, working in a number of different treatment settings is that we had really
4:24 seen that there was um what we saw as like a missing type of a program for young men specifically. And so we um had
4:33 connected with our third co-founder, Brennan Moore, who’s a who’s a great guy. an embassy.
4:37 So you guys connected here in Bend or uh so me and Brennan had been been friends. We got sober together. We’ve
4:44 been best friends, lived together. We were at that time we were over in Eugene.
4:49 Gotcha. Okay. So where where and when did you how did you end up connecting with these two then?
4:55 So the way that we connected I was working at a at a treatment program in southern Oregon. Um and I was the program director and a therapist there.
5:02 And then uh Brennan, our third co-founder, he was working for a treatment center that was based in Florida and he um came and visited the treatment center that I was working at.
5:10 And so I I gave him a tour of the facility and we just immediately hit it off and became fast friends and they had been separately talking about wanting to
5:18 start some kind of a program and they they had highlighted Bend as somewhere that they wanted to be. Um I’d already lived in Bend previously and loved Bend
5:25 and wanted to come back and do it and so yeah in 201617 it started to formulate and then 2018 we just um decided to go
5:35 for it. Um and we had um no outside investors, we had no business experience. Um we no real resources.
5:43 Yeah. And so we just pulled together the little money that we had to be able to convince um a bank to give us a loan on
5:51 a house. Um, we had to tell him we were going to live in the house, so they would only let us put like 3% down on it or something. Oh gosh.
5:57 Um, and then uh and then Bren and I are both trauma therapists as well. So, we had offices that were just um right in downtown Ben, just a few minutes walk
6:05 from here. We had our house, our first house was just down the river here. Um, just a just a short walk over this way.
6:11 Um, and then our offices were a short walk this way. And so we um set it up so that they yeah they were living in the houses and and um and receiving um
6:20 really daily programming structure um adventure um fun activities getting plugged into the local recovery
6:27 community. Um and then the other thing that’s a huge part of our program is our clinical focus. And we just really believe in treating the underlying
6:35 issues that that lead to the symptoms of addiction and mental health issues. And we started with this this small house and then um yeah, we’ve grown it to
6:42 today where we have we have four houses and we have a total of 23 beds and we have an office building that’s um yeah,
6:49 we have now I think 12 people total in our our staff team and so we’ve got a little operation but it’s really perfect for what we’re doing and we really love it.
7:03 So I want to ask Dustin um do you find that the m I mean do you find that the best
7:12 um clinicians like sometimes the best ones are the ones that went through it themselves like you guys?
7:19 I think it’s a helpful entry. It was helpful for me in my experience definitely to to work with other people
7:26 other men that that I really trusted like oh you get it like you understand the struggle you lived the way I lived
7:34 and you don’t anymore cuz it’s also important for them to see what what our lives look like today.
7:41 I mean was that what what kind of sparked it for you? You know, for for me it was that um I I really feel like I
7:50 was pretty like lost in the cracks in the culture that I grew up in in North Texas. Um I didn’t really have a clear
7:58 sense of direction or purpose or what I wanted to do with my life. Um and just generally felt pretty lost. And then when I so I was like going to college
8:06 and just thought like, oh, I’m just going to get into business cuz like you just get a business degree. That’s what you do. And I didn’t have any clear reason why I was doing that. And I
8:14 remember I went through treatment and I had a therapist who made a big impact on me and she was also somebody who’d been in recovery herself as well. And that
8:22 was helpful for me to knowing that about her. Um and she said to me, you know, I don’t know if you’ve ever thought about doing this work, but you really could.
8:29 You have a gift for this if you wanted to do it. And it was the first time I felt um seen in that kind of way. And that for me was like this the seed that
8:38 got planted. And I also it was just such a powerful experience for me when it finally did click that I was like I just want to be a part of this in some way.
8:46 Now let me ask you this. Have you paid that forward at all? Has there been people coming through your program where you go you say the same thing to them and absolutely. Yeah.
8:55 Oh yeah. I mean that’s I mean that’s where the magic is with it too. It’s like we get to walk into work and you
9:02 know we’ve been in this for Yeah. eight plus years um at least with Skyline and and we get to work with
9:09 guys that that you know were clients seven years ago. They’re they’re the ones with you know they’re young and
9:17 they got all the energy and they’re they’re a little closer to age with a lot of our clients and our our clients respond to them and and so we get to
9:26 watch them develop and and grow into the therapists that they are now. So yeah, most most of our team um of our
9:35 coaching team went through the program um themselves and are in recovery and one one of the things that we say is like when we started cuz we were younger
9:43 at the time is like that they would look at us and they would say like oh yeah these guys are living the type of life we want to live and and kind of looked at us as as mentors and we we’re slowly
9:51 aging out of being like the relatable mentor now cuz we’re just in a different stage of life. So, it’s like we’ve had to hire the people that are they can now look at and say like, “Oh, yeah. These
10:00 are the guys that are that are doing it.” Yeah.
10:02 But it’s it’s it’s easier to to already have identified potential talent and people that have come through
10:10 and recognizing them. Well, this is our succession plan, you know? I mean, but really, I mean, honestly, as you were telling your story earlier, you
10:17 were kind of introducing yourselves as both being the bad boys. And I mean, I I raised five sons, you know, and we had
10:24 some of that. And of course I knew a lot of people in that area. And I would think your parents
10:31 uh must be just so thrilled. I mean, not only are they doing well, they’re
10:38 helping others do well who maybe then will continue to play that down the line. I mean, yeah.
10:45 What what do you what do your families think and your parents think?
10:48 Absolutely. I mean, yeah. I mean, my poor mother, you know, I put her through fake hell for a very long time. Thank you for saying that.
10:57 You know, um, and you know, she gets to see u, you know, my life, our life, right?
11:04 We we know both each other’s parents and we’re friends with, you know, it’s um, and yeah, and I know how proud they are
11:14 and and yeah, just how excited cuz they get to see all the steps of it along the way.
11:25 What what are some of the the issues that you face, the challenges that keep you up at night? I mean, I I’ll ask you both maybe from a clinical perspective and then also from an operational one.
11:36 What are the what are the sort of Oh man, that’s a pain point. You know, this this is hard.
11:42 The thing that’s usually the some of the hard things for me are I when people come through the program, we’re we’re
11:49 just so committed to them like but we’re we’re really like when they’re coming in, I think that we’re making an agreement with them and their families that we’re going to walk with them
11:58 through this next period of time. We’re a longer term program. Our average length of stay is probably 8 months. And so people can be with us even for 6, 12,
12:07 even 2 years, 24 months. Um and um and so sometimes being on that journey has its ups and downs, right? So like we can
12:15 have people that, you know, maybe they have have a relapse and um and sometimes maybe some mental health symptoms. You know, I’m thinking about a client that I
12:23 worked with that um yeah, recently had a a psychotic episode and like walking through that with his family. Um, and so I think those kinds of things of when
12:32 we’re working with people that are in crisis are um are are hard and and we choose, you know, there’s some programs that choose to be pretty handsoff when
12:41 that happens where they’re just like, okay, they’re, you know, struggling and so that you need to go somewhere else, you need to go other people, they’re pink sheeted and we take them to wherever or something.
12:50 Yeah. And um and and certainly we’ll make we we make the appropriate referrals when we need to to other higher levels of care. Um but um I think that’s something that sets us apart is
12:59 our commitment level to the clients and the families that we work with. Um and the cost to that for us is that uh that it can be stressful. You know, it can be
13:06 hard in walking with people through that journey.
13:09 Yeah. You think you’re going to work one day to just do the usual exercises, go for a hike. I mean, I don’t know.
13:16 Typical modalities of of therapy and things like that and and you have a you know, a psychotic episode or a manic break or something. I
13:24 mean
13:26 [laughter]
13:27 it it contained your day pretty fast. Yeah.
13:30 No, I I laugh from experience. Um and it’s it’s a bitter laugh.
13:35 Uh Dustin, what about you? I mean, what are what are some of the things just from keeping the the keeping it going and on a day-to-day basis? What are the challenges you guys face?
13:45 Yeah, I mean, I guess I’d say we got in this business to help people. We know how to do that. What we didn’t have is
13:54 business degrees, you know, we’re not accountants, we’re not bookkeeper, you know, and so we had to learn, you know,
14:03 and we, you know, it was so grassroots that it was every aspect of the business was on us, you know.
14:12 Um, how do you learn it? What did you do? I mean, you just are you just diying with the internet? Are you bringing experts in for advice? I mean how do you
14:20 all of it all of it bringing in experts learning everything we can from them just sitting down and research research practice
14:29 um and really kind of like owning the fact of like oh this is our responsibility if we want both
14:36 and and I think you know we look at it both ways of like if we want this business to be able to help clients we have to make it sustainable and healthy
14:45 business as well as we’re so invested in our staff it’s we we want it to be successful for them as well. So, we you
14:54 know carry that weight. Um but it also drives the like, oh, we don’t know how to do this like better figure it out.
15:02 Is your staff pretty loyal? I mean, do you struggle with high turnover? Is that we don’t we haven’t had any turnover.
15:08 Like it’s I and I feel best like we are so lucky. We are so lucky. our
15:14 staff is they are loyal, invested, you know, approached the work with integrity,
15:23 you know, and and yeah, some of the staff we have like we didn’t have a position for them. They just wanted to
15:30 work, you know, as or with us so bad that we would just be like, “Okay, let’s make one up.” I love
15:39 just start them and and then and then we focus on the business to grow it to where we can can build a a position.
15:46 [laughter]
15:51 [music]
15:53 Now, of course, every time we have lunch with Rorow, we always ask our guests to select what they want for lunch from here locally. Tell me what we’re we’re
16:02 getting out of our boxes here. So, this is from a local bakery called Sparrow Bakery, which uh actually I just was,
16:09 funny enough, last night went to their they had an event where they’ve been open for 20 years. Um, and they’re known for something called the Ocean Roll,
16:16 which is like probably the the most famous little pastry to bend and uh they have a bacon breakfast sandwich that’s
16:24 got a great reputation. So, that’s that’s what that’s what we ordered.
16:28 I ordered French toast sticks. I just order that.
16:33 I’m away from my my home. I’m away from my wife.
16:36 I’m pretty sure that they would do pure maple. They did.
16:40 So, at least it doesn’t have, you know, all the added sugar. It’s just from a tree. Yes. Which is great for a sap like me.
16:48 Gosh, that’s talk about a dad. That’s a dad joke. That was a dad joke.
16:53 Now, speaking of dads, off camera earlier, we I think I heard you guys say you both are fathers now, too. We are.
16:59 Yeah. So me and my wife have been together for 15 years. Yeah.
17:08 And where did you meet her?
17:09 So she’s also in recovery. We kind of met in that community. Um she that was back when we were living in Eugene and she Yeah, she she’s the best.
17:21 That’s awesome. Good for you, man.
17:22 So supportive of all this. And um yeah, we have a seven-year-old daughter. And then we luckily, you know, Patrick
17:30 followed short behind and had a daughter himself. Oh, really? Oh, so you have a daughter as well? Yeah. And they’re pretty close in age.
17:38 Yeah. Yeah. And they’re best friends and her wife’s best friends and stuff, too. And Yeah. It’s a family affair. That’s really cool. Oh, yeah.
17:46 And And does everyone live in Bend? I mean, is this just where it all Yeah. goes down?
17:53 Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. I mean, in this I mean, cuz we came we came to start Skyline in band. We wanted this as our
18:01 backyard, right? Whether it be the parks, the town, the the concerts, the music, everything that goes on. And then
18:09 to be able to go 15 minutes in any direction and be in the forest or be in the desert or mostly in the river, you know.
18:19 Yeah. People spend a lot of time in the river. A lot of time in the river. Yeah.
18:21 Is it fishing? Is it just swimming? So, Dashuites is world class fly fishing um all throughout. Um kaying, rafting, you
18:31 know, right in town we have our surf waves. There’s a lot of surfing in the river.
18:36 Wow. Yeah. I thought I saw somebody with a surfboard. I’m like, “Oh, yeah.
18:39 What are they doing?” Exactly. Landlock surfing. Dang it. Yeah.
18:43 Isn’t there great hiking trails somewhere nearby, too? All over. Yeah. Yeah.
18:48 Mhm. You can throw a rock and hit a great hiking trail around here. I mean, you can take this trail that’s right here in town at this park and run it all
18:57 the way up to Mount Bachelor if you want and you can connect to a whole, you know, hundreds of miles of mountain bike trails.
19:05 Beautiful.
19:06 We would have days where we would ski and snowboard and and take off on our mountain bikes from the parking lot down the trails right into town.
19:15 Now, is any of that part of the program? Very much so.
19:19 Yeah. Yeah. the activities, the recreation.
19:21 Yeah. Yeah. So, a lot of our guys during the winter months will ski and snowboard. Um, we’ve had people that get jobs up at the mountain as well as like
19:29 operating chairlifts and that kind of thing. Wow.
19:31 Um, and um, we we really want to introduce them to different ways of life and activities and things they can become passionate about and and show
19:38 them that a life of recovery, especially as a young man, can be active and fun and embodied and um, yeah. So, that’s that’s very much ingrained into what we
19:47 do here. [snorts] Pretty much all of our clients are coming from out of state.
19:50 Um, we have some that come from Portland. Very rarely do we have somebody that actually comes from Bend.
19:55 Um, and a lot of times people need a um it’s it’s helpful to be in a new environment where they can have a new experience of themselves.
20:04 Because they’re all adults. Yeah. It’s it’s a open door.
20:08 It’s open door. And that’s the way we want it. We want it to be an inviting uh place that where people are here cuz
20:16 they they want to be, right? And then the more you get that, the community can kind of uphold that. They they build off
20:25 each other and in the end they can help each other often times more than we can.
20:30 If they make those connections and they have a shared mission of, hey, we’re trying to grow up. We’re trying to be
20:36 the best people we can be. and you know work through whatever it is.
20:47 Uh let me ask you what what what what kind of do you hang your hat on organizationally? What is it that when you say you talk about Skyline Recovery?
20:57 These one or two things are what we are we do the best. This is what we focus on. It’s a great question.
21:05 Yeah. I I would say it’s really our our clinical model and our clinical programming. And so um I think I mentioned something about this before,
21:11 but the the um there’s a quote by Gabri Mate who’s a kind of famous um addiction specialist, trauma specialist in our
21:20 field. He’s written a lot of books. He’s he has a quote where he says that not every person who experiences trauma becomes an addict, but every addict has
21:27 experienced trauma. Um, and so that can be, you know, sometimes when we think about something like trauma, you think about being in a war or a car accident
21:35 or some of these big events, but what we’re learning is that it’s more than just about the event. It’s about how it is embodied in a person’s nervous
21:42 system. Um, and so even being bullied at school, um, or having parents that are neglectful and not there for you
21:50 emotionally, um, can leave that traumatic imprint into a person. and and so we believe that in order to really
21:57 treat somebody in a whole way that we have to be addressing that as well. Um so all of our therapists have are trained in different advanced trauma
22:04 modalities. Um and it’s very much built into our process and programming that that is going to be addressed. And so we we do probably more therapy than the
22:13 average recovery program. Um we have a really comprehensive uh family therapy program as well. So when people are here, we’re doing intensive family
22:21 therapy along with the the individual work and group work that we’re doing with their their young man that’s in our program. And um and so I would say
22:29 that’s the thing that people were more well known for.
22:31 Yeah. You you’ve mentioned the the term community a lot. Yeah.
22:34 And we hear that a lot in a lot of our interviews in all facets of behavioral health. Sure. Yeah.
22:40 How how critical is that idea of community?
22:44 I I think it’s um foundational. I think a person if if that’s not built into a
22:50 program and tended to then um your chances of it working are are slim to none. [clears throat] Um there’s you
22:58 might have heard of the there’s a hummingbird right there um and uh
23:02 [laughter]
23:02 there you go. We’re getting to see Ben Doran in action right now. Um and um and you you probably heard of this concept from the uh the book Chasing the Scream
23:11 where he was about addiction and looking at like finding an underlying theory of addiction and why it happens and what
23:19 makes recovery work. And they say that thing the opposite of addiction is connection. They did this study with um with rats where they had rats that were
23:27 in a cage and they had these uh these water bottles that were um had like regular water and then they had ones that had like cocaine and heroin or some
23:35 kind of you know combination like that and we’re just watching you know what was their predisposition towards addiction. The kind of a bridge version
23:43 of the story is that they found that the rats that that they um placed into like a a larger community that had other rats
23:50 in there that they could play with and they had different places that they could things they could run around on and they had a sense of connection and felt like they were a part of a community. [snorts]
23:58 They would have those same water bottles in there and they just would not touch them really that much. But the ones that were in isolation would even get to the point where they would overdose and die.
24:07 Um and um and so even in that little microcosmic example, I think that that completely applies to us. If we’re feeling um comfortable in our own skin,
24:16 if we’re feeling connected to other people, if we feel feel seen, we feel a part of something, then we’re going to want to just keep showing up and doing,
24:24 we’re going to feel good and um and not going to be as drawn towards those methods of escape, which ultimately that’s what we look at substances as.
24:31 Yeah. What do you say to people that are maybe watching that are thinking of getting into your line of work? I mean, what what bits of wisdom or advice? I see Dustin really mulling that one.
24:42 [laughter]
24:42 Buy the ticket, take the ride. Really?
24:45 I mean, yeah. If you’re getting into it cuz cuz it’s the work you want to do, like the
24:53 the helping, the healing, if that’s the motivation, just go for it.
24:59 If the motivation’s elsewhere, there’s the door. It’s going to be a grind and you know that shouldn’t be the the primary.
25:09 Yeah, that’s a that’s a great bit of [snorts] insight. I mean, honestly, you wouldn’t be doing this, right?
25:18 No. if you weren’t. There’s a lot of things that would be a lot easier to do than [laughter] this,
25:24 but we love what we do and we and it has purpose and and meaning and and you know, we talked about like we get we get
25:33 to the magic is is seeing the guys down the line, you know, whether it’s like yeah, lucky enough that someone come to
25:40 work with us or you’re just going to a concert in town and you run into
25:47 somebody and they’re there with their girlfriend or maybe they got a kid now and and it’s been years and you see that
25:54 and you’re like, “Oh, they were a huge pain.
25:59 You never would have thought.” Yeah.
26:01 But you never know either. And it’s like, yeah, that’s that’s the magic. That’s what keeps it going is is when, you
26:10 know, get to see the guys down the line a little bit and it’s like that’s why we do it.
26:14 Yeah. Even this morning I I went on a run with two of our alumni who [clears throat] one of them is visiting from out of town and the other one is actually doing he’s in grad school and
26:23 he’s doing an internship with us now and um and just moments like that of and and yeah I can remember when both of them were in our program had different
26:31 moments where it was hard and they were struggling and getting to see that journey and be a part of that journey is just such a gift. Yeah. In the event we
26:39 have anybody watching right now who may be considering your help,
26:47 what do you say to them? I what what do what do they do? What is this is it a daunting thing? Is it they voluntarily
26:54 call? They investigate. What how do they how does someone avail themselves of Skyline recovery?
27:02 Yeah. Well, um we have an amazing admissions director. Her name is Molly who you got to got got to meet.
27:08 And so Molly is the first point of contact and she’s amazing at what she does and we we take our admissions process really seriously. Um we’re
27:16 vetting for a lot of things. We want to make sure that this is the right place and right fit for a person.
27:21 Um and uh we don’t want it to be a thing where we’re just like, “Oh yeah, come on down.” And it turns out that it’s not the right fit. That’s going to be detrimental to both that person and then
27:29 our community as well. Um, and so it would be reaching out either through our website or our phone number and that that that is going straight to Molly.
27:37 And then she will walk with a family and the young man through that process and and setting up different interviews. We can sometimes set up tours for people to
27:45 come and check it out and um maybe even like sit in on a group and get a feel for what the community looks and feels like. Yeah.
27:54 [music]
27:57 Okay. Okay, I want to ask you guys this uh just to kind of bring things to a a head here. Um just sort of summarize for
28:05 me where you where you are now in your life
28:12 and what it means to you [snorts] like where are you in your journey? Who wants to start with that?
28:20 Yeah. [laughter] Yeah, that’s a heavy question.
28:22 Let’s start with you, Dustin. You seem like a thinker. Yeah, I mean it I got a beautiful life. I love it and it can be
28:30 exhausting and it can be, you know, stressful and and all the things that life is. Um and [clears throat] I think,
28:38 you know, to speak to that like what it means to be in recovery and that lifelong
28:46 um position is always just trying to be the best person you can be. Always trying to grow. You know, we all have
28:55 our struggles, whatever they may be, and it means giving them the attention that they deserve, and and trying to work on
29:02 them and trying to make sure they’re not as impactful or don’t impact others. Yeah.
29:10 Let me ask you just to follow up and then I’m going to ask you, but what at the end of the day, what what is success
29:18 to you on that particular day? If you end up the day and you you look back and you go, “This was a win.” What was what would be a win for you?
29:28 That I was present that I enjoyed I was Yeah. enjoyed the day that I was present
29:36 for all parts, the hard parts, the happy parts, the fun parts.
29:40 Yeah, I like that. Yeah.
29:44 So, the question Yeah. The Where am I at?
29:46 Yeah. kind of where you are in life and what does what does success look like to you in what you do?
29:51 Yeah. Yeah. Well, I very much still see myself as being on my journey um and not I I I haven’t arrived, you know, and I
29:59 and I don’t know that I maybe there’s a finish line, but I haven’t seen it yet, you know, and um and so for me that’s
30:06 very much um being involved in my own um spiritual life, therapeutic journey, recovery journey, um being a father, I
30:15 think that’s become emerged as as maybe the most important role that I’m serving at this time of my life. Um, and then I think the role that I hold at Skyline
30:24 where I feel like I’m both um, supporting our team and being there for our team um, as much as I am for our
30:32 clients too. I feel responsibility for that.
30:35 And as far as what success looks like, I think it’s um, just being willing and
30:42 courageous to step into whatever life is giving me that day with our clients. And sometimes that’s things are smooth sailing and there’s a lot of connection
30:50 and joy and it feels really good and like the run that I went on this morning is like that’s that feels great, you know. And sometimes actually showing up
30:58 means showing up when I don’t want to and it’s hard and um and I have a client who’s had a psychotic break and I’m on the phone with different people and I’m
31:06 trying to just step in and and um and and be helpful. Um and so yeah, I think it depends on the day. Um, oftentimes in
31:14 our work, we kind of will at the end of the day be like, can you believe this is our job? Like both in the good and the bad. Um, but I but I think that, you know, I trust that I’m here for a reason
31:23 and doing this for a reason. And and that’s what I I kind of go back to is trying to just trust in that and show up as best as I can. That’s awesome.
31:30 Well, uh, Patrick and Dustin, both of you, thank you so much for being here, for lunching with Ro.
31:37 Um, you know, as far as my mission of finding the heroes, um, this is this is a good one.
31:45 Yeah. I mean, like I say, I I think about my own experience with my own um relatives and the things I’ve seen them
31:53 go through and it’s just it’s Sorry, it’s a lot.
31:58 It’s Yeah.
32:01 Yeah. just to say too, I know that we both of us have relatives and we both been in it and we both have been on the other side of it too and and know those
32:10 those places, you know, these are things that we go to. Um and yeah, and it’s um yeah, it’s a gift that we get to do this.
32:18 It really is. And and you know, just like I say, to wrap things up from a from a paternal perspective, I always
32:24 love seeing, you know, that kind of turnaround.
32:29 Yeah. you know, and then to go back and say, “Look what look what they did for us. Look how our lives have changed.
32:37 Let’s help change others lives.” I mean, and then now you’re putting some of them to work for you and interning as they’re studying and getting their degrees. I
32:45 mean, high five or knuckles or whatever it is that we do in 2020.
32:51 [laughter]
32:52 But thanks again. Really, uh, your time has been just very, very appreciated.
32:57 Thanks for having us. It’s been great to be here. Great to be here.
33:00 Well, thanks for joining us here on another episode of Lunch with Row. In this case, we actually had breakfast.
33:04 We we breakfasted with Ro, but uh [music] we’ll be back out on the road soon and uh talking with other behavioral health experts [music] and professionals. And uh have a good one.
33:16 Thanks for joining me on the Lunchwith Row mobile podcast. I hope you’ll hit subscribe and tell your friends. [music] I’ll see you right back here every two
33:24 weeks with an all new episode. It’s the Lunch with Row mobile Vodcast. Behavioral health’s new best friend.
33:31 We got to go. [music] Look. Look at this. Okay.
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